Idea: tips for creating movesets/style/parameters/AI

[WaylonMercysHands]

I was thinking it would be helpful if we had a section where we discussed general advice for creating or modifying movesets, fighting style, parameters, and AI.

This could include stuff like:
-which settings (i.e., moves, fighting style, parameters) or combinations of settings are important in determining how good a wrestler is.
-what kind of AI makes the most sense based on a wrestler's moveset, fighting style, and parameters.

I think this could be useful, since the keys to creating a strong (or weak, if you're making a jobber) wrestler are not always obvious. I know when I first started playing No Mercy, I had a poor understanding of this. For example, I overestimated the importance of someone's total number of parameter points, I underestimated the fact that different moves produce different spirit gains, and I didn't realize that weight class (heavy vs. light heavy) mattered at all.

 

[Maximo]

Great idea man.

If you're making an original caw, try to have moves that set up into various positions to add variety (which will give you good spirit boosts),
Having all your grapple moves strong (C's and B's) but always making them lie on their back or front can greatly limit what you can do next, making you both predictable to reverse and boring to watch.
There is no harm in having alot of F-C moves.

Also fitting their moves to their costume/name/gimmick can make their movesets easier to remember and fun. (for example a clean freak character where none of his moves make him land on his back or stomach due to his fear of the blood on the mat)

NEVER Underestimate reversals, if you make the reversal settings high for the AI it can sometimes make even a "weak" wrestler troublesome for harder fighters.

With Taunts, the longer the taunt, the bigger the Spirit boast, but its good to have short and medium and long length taunts to be able to mix it up in the match.
Also the longer special taunt is, the longer you are in Special for, however a shorter set up taunt can be useful against opponents with a high recovery.


General Movesets are:
Weak Grapple A+Left/Right=Snapmere
Weak Grapple B+Up=Suplex Variations
Strong Grapple A=Headlock or Bear Hug submissions

...I'm still jet lagged I'll write some more when I can.

 

[CalvTheHedgehog]

I know the parameters are huuuuge. Nobody thinks they're useful, but damage is a big thing in this game.

Legs are important because when you're in the damaged state you move a lot slower.

When someone is damaged enough that they are holding their head, it's easier to knock them out. Also easier to bust them open. This is an interesting dynamic, because if you give some a weak head, but "Aggressive" Reaction To Blood, with a strong finisher, They can win easily. If it's a finisher that basically secures a pin, like the Tombstone Piledriver, it's so awesome to see the spirit boost comeback.

 

[WaylonMercysHands]

Thanks, guys. I hadn't noticed some of those things, which might be partly because I've been doing more hacking than actual playing.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>I know the parameters are huuuuge. Nobody thinks they're useful, but damage is a big thing in this game.[/quote]
It seems like the most important parameters would be body defense, body offense, and whichever offensive parameters are used by the finisher and the most powerful moves. I'm assuming arms defense is mostly only relevant to submissions.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Legs are important because when you're in the damaged state you move a lot slower.[/quote]
Are you sure that that's the legs damage? I thought flying damage was what affected speed. A lot of moves that damage the legs also damage the "flying" attribute.


<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>NEVER Underestimate reversals, if you make the reversal settings high for the AI it can sometimes make even a "weak" wrestler troublesome for harder fighters.[/quote]
And I have to say, I'm not a big fan of the reversals aspect of AI. To me, if a character is good, then he ought to be good regardless of whether a CPU or human is controlling him. Are there other dimensions of AI besides reversals where one setting is just absolutely the best setting for everyone, regardless of their moves, endurance, recovery, etc.?


Also, is it just me or is some of the built-in AI just plain idiotic for certain people (usually the less important characters)? For example, Tori has the S-powered cobra clutch suplex as her back grapple special, yet she always does the big swing instead.

 

[Maximo]

And I have to say, I'm not a big fan of the reversals aspect of AI.

Also, is it just me or is some of the built-in AI just plain idiotic for certain people (usually the less important characters)? For example, Tori has the S-powered cobra clutch suplex as her back grapple special, yet she always does the big swing instead.

I'm not usually on No Mercy, but I remember in the default game Triple H reverses a hell of a lot compared to most of the original roster.

I just checked out Wrestlemania 2000's AI, and no one is Good at reversing grapples, they're either Bad (most of them, which explains why Wrestlemania is the easiest AKI game) or Normal.
But some are good at reversing strikes,
Rock, Shamrock, D'lo, Jarret, HHH, Road Dogg, X Pac, Undertaker, Gangrel (seriously), Shane McMahon, and Val Venis.
It will be interesting to see a Kane match after changing his Strike reversals from normal to good.

I will check out No Mercy when I remember how to get to its AI menu.

They didn't do Tori justice, she was pretty decent wrestler in Japan in the late 80's/early 9-0's.

I think they nerfed the women/"less important" characters so it would simulate the WWF cards "correctly",
You can't have Women or outsiders winning big matches, no matter how talented a performer are, that would just be silly :$

 

[DnewgroundsisBack]

I read this post on CAWplace from HunterisTheGame

"It's really not too hard to make a good parameter set for your caws. All you have to do is look at their moves to see what type wrestler they are. For example if you have a guy that has a lot of high flying moves, especially a flying finisher (like RVD), then you want to set their offensive flying to a 4 or 5 depending on how good they are at the flying moves. Same goes for offensive impact moves to the head (finisher impacts the head or has a lot of powerful head attacks) then set head higher. And so on for each one. In turn for defensive set different ones higher for areas that the wrestler can protect better. Example: a boxer style fighter would have a high head defense. A big guy would have a higher flying defense to catch flyers in mid-air. Hope that helps some. I don't know much about those guys you asked for but if you do then it should be very easy to make a paramet up yourself. Good luck!"

He is surely wrong, correct? From my understanding his post is stating that a caw with a higher head offense parameter would be more effective using not only moves that involve their head, but moves that impact the opponent's head (death valley driver, screwdriver, etc)

Is this true? I never heard of this before

 

[WaylonMercysHands]

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>He is surely wrong, correct? From my understanding his post is stating that a caw with a higher head offense parameter would be more effective using not only moves that involve their head, but moves that impact the opponent's head (death valley driver, screwdriver, etc)[/quote]

Yeah, that doesn't sound right. Most of the moves that use head offense do also damage the head, though (since they're mostly headbutts), so maybe that's how he got that impression.