Advice for new members attempting a save.

[The NekoMancer]

My question is, does a mod save require a lot of hacking to be enjoyable? I for one enjoy the game as it is; the gameplay engine is probably the best there has ever been, it is fun and most of the moves being used today are in it, not to mention plenty of taunts and character slots and arenas. I don't necessarily need 500 cheats added to a save to enjoy it, just as long as my favorites like Bret Hart or Stone Cold are in with all their moves I will have fun with it. Of course, all these hacks are just a bonus to an already great game and highly welcomed.

I think just the essentials. Arenas, Movesets and Attire Hacks I suppose. I rarely use any Move Hacks, but that's just me. I don't mind my projects not changing everything, or not looking like a new game. What I do is a mod in an already made game, nothing more.

Other people do like changing the game entirely and that's fine too.

 

[bluntfello]

Yeah for me the top priorities are actually visual, i.e roster, arenas, and interface, so basically textures. Next as far as hacking would be moves that aren't in the game, as long as they aren't choppy looking because if they don't look smooth I'd rather not have them in game. Stuff like having 4 movesets per slot is great though, as well as adding in more than the 10 arenas already in the game, and of course doing stuff to change the menus also make it a much more fun game. Stuff like smarter managers or arena specific attires I rarely notice. The next big thing in the No Mercy/AKI modding community I think is rom hacking, that is where the future of this community lies in and I can't wait to see what the top hackers come up with.

 

[The NekoMancer]

Well, rom hacking has been a thing for a long time, but just recently people have discovered new ways to use it and improve texture modding among other things

 

[Deleted User]

My question is, does a mod save require a lot of hacking to be enjoyable? I for one enjoy the game as it is; the gameplay engine is probably the best there has ever been, it is fun and most of the moves being used today are in it, not to mention plenty of taunts and character slots and arenas. I don't necessarily need 500 cheats added to a save to enjoy it, just as long as my favorites like Bret Hart or Stone Cold are in with all their moves I will have fun with it. Of course, all these hacks are just a bonus to an already great game and highly welcomed.

Movesets count as hacks and they are completely necessary.

The vanilla engine is fine, but with all the breakthroughs that have happened the last two years, to not use any of these new tools at your fingertips is kind of silly.

 

[The NekoMancer]

My question is, does a mod save require a lot of hacking to be enjoyable? I for one enjoy the game as it is; the gameplay engine is probably the best there has ever been, it is fun and most of the moves being used today are in it, not to mention plenty of taunts and character slots and arenas. I don't necessarily need 500 cheats added to a save to enjoy it, just as long as my favorites like Bret Hart or Stone Cold are in with all their moves I will have fun with it. Of course, all these hacks are just a bonus to an already great game and highly welcomed.

Movesets count as hacks and they are completely necessary.

The vanilla engine is fine, but with all the breakthroughs that have happened the last two years, to not use any of these new tools at your fingertips is kind of silly.

I disagree. It's an option not to use them and it's not silly lol

 

[Deleted User]

It's possible to now have the following:

A different crowd in every arena that doesn't have repeating textures.

Animated ringmats.

Striking finishers that do not require grapples (Spears, Sweet Chin Music, ect)

Unlimited attires selectable from the select screen, no more formulas/mpks needed.

Tag team movesets that only activate when the wrestlers are paired together.

Weapons overhaul.

For instance, Bluntfello is making a lucha save, correct? You don't have to hack new moves to make it possible, but to make it accurate you'd have to change the damage values for certain moves that would otherwise be useless as a finish.

So if you need that front grapple hurricanarana to be just as a powerful as a stunner, you'd have to use a gonzo mod with an irn mod.

Two lines of code that anyone could learn to do in less than 20 minutes, AND it wouldn't even glitch! There's even a tool for it already so you don't have to write the code for it.

waylonmercyshands has made a fantastic code generator that can already create huge codes and anyone that can read english can have it down within an hour....

.... I mean.... with all that awesomeness at your fingertips... why stop with just improved textures?

 

[bluntfello]

It's good to know that. I will look into that and I will admit given the choice to have or not to have hacks in I'd prefer to have em. Sometimes it just seems overwhelming.

 

[Fizanko]

To me the AKI wrestling engine had one flaw as i like to get the AI sim matches, and a rather big one in my eye as it broke all the suspense of a match for my taste : the first AI wrestler that start to dominate will win due to how momentum goes up forthe one that start to be in charge while it goes down to oblivion for the AI that isn't.

Making it then that early match you can already see who's going to win, something that killed the fun to me as it caused a lack of exciting match comeback or back and forth like in the best wrestling i watched.

What was to me the game changer with this engine and fixed this flaw everything was the Mr Monday Night's "occasional spirit boost" code, that i discovered first in Showdow64 and simply hooked me completely in both playing and simming due to this code allowing the possibility of AI big come backs or back and forth that were lacking from the default game.

So indeed the wrestling engine is good, no contest, but this flaw was really making my sims mostly boring, while with this added code, just wow , that's no Okada vs Omega but that can lead to amazing sims.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
I love to set up cards and watch the computer battle it out, but half the time the matches end up very lopsided. I found a few codes that were supposed to correct that, but none of them really made a difference, so I made my own. I used a snippet of a code from Pelican, which you will see below. His code was ok, but all matches lasted like 45 minutes.. which is way too long! So I have added and changed some things to get some decent length matches.

What this code does:
This code will make your matches last longer, AND it will make them a lot closer. Starting health adjustments and some lines that define how beat up someone must be before getting pinned, make the matches last longer.

And I also created a system to help even the matches out when one person is dominating. Now, when one player has a very low spirit, they have a good chance of receiving a large spirit boost. It doesn't happen every time they are low, but occasionally, they will be near danger, and get a huge boost, giving them a chance to escape the dangerous position, and possibly get a special on their opponent.

This works really well to balance matches out, because a given wrestler might be getting beaten badly, but if his spirits are always low, sooner or later that spirit boost will kick in and get his spirits really high. So no one can be beaten THAT badly, because the lower the spirit, the better the chance for a spirit boost.

In testing I have seen tons of really good come from behind victories, thanks to a last second spirit boost, leading to a finisher.

Instructions:
It's quite simple. Just enter the following 3 codes into your PJ64 and turn all 3 of them on. Set match difficulty to normal. All my testing was done on normal, and I believe it yields the most balanced and interesting matches.

Once you begin a match, press Z. You won't see anything happen, but this will set the health of the two wrestlers to the appropriate spot. If you do not do this, you are likely to have an hour long match. Be sure to press Z at the beginning of every match. And don't press it after that or you will reset their health again.

After that, you can just sit back and watch.

part 1
Press Z to set health
Credit: Mr Monday Night
D1064880 2000
8115AF5C 00B4
D1064880 2000
8115B2B4 00B4
D1064880 2000
8115B60C 00b4
D1064880 2000
8115B964 00b4

part 2
Occasional Spirit Boost
Credit: Mr Monday Night
D115AF5E 0014
8115AF5E 0060
D115B2B6 0014
8115B2B6 0060
d115b60e 0014
8115B60e 0060
d115B966 0014
8115B966 0060

part 3
Pins are harder to get
Credit: Pelican
D215AF5D 0040
D115AEC6 0045
8115AF64 0003
D215AF5D 0040
D115AEC6 004B
8115AF64 0003
D215B2B5 0040
D115B21E 0045
8115B2BC 0003
D215B2B5 0040
D115B21E 004B
8115B2BC 0003
D215B60D 0040
D115B576 0045
8115B614 0003
D215B60D 0040
D115B576 004B
8115B614 0003
D215B965 0040
D115B8CE 0045
8115B96C 0003
D215B965 0040
D115B8CE 004B
8115B96C 0003

If you want to adjust the length of the matches, simply the 00b4 values from part 1, which are marked below:

D1064880 2000
8115AF5C 00B4*
D1064880 2000
8115B2B4 00B4*
D1064880 2000
8115B60C 00B4*
D1064880 2000
8115B964 00B4*

Those 4 values determine how much health the wresters start with, once you press z. If you want shorter matches, try a value like 0080. If you want longer matches, try something like 00d0. For reference, 0040 is the absolute lowest health, and 00ff is the health that wresters generally start with. You can go above 00ff if you want. I know you can get up into the 0100+ range, but just how high you can go, I am not sure. Feel free to play around with that.

You can make matches extremely short, or extremely long. It's up to you. But I found 00b4 to be a really good spot. It takes several finishers to end a match, and usually your matches will be 10 minutes plus, and generally around 15. [/quote]

 

[Deleted User]

Sometimes it just seems overwhelming.

It CAN be a lot of work, but honestly, once you figure out the basics, it makes it so simple you'll be kicking yourself for not learning them earlier.

I can have a multi-spliced, four player converted, wrestler specific move-hack made in under an hour now that won't glitch. Used to take me hours or days.

Repetition, just like any skill.

 

[The NekoMancer]

It's possible to now have the following:

A different crowd in every arena that doesn't have repeating textures.

Animated ringmats.

Striking finishers that do not require grapples (Spears, Sweet Chin Music, ect)

Unlimited attires selectable from the select screen, no more formulas/mpks needed.

Tag team movesets that only activate when the wrestlers are paired together.

Weapons overhaul.

For instance, Bluntfello is making a lucha save, correct? You don't have to hack new moves to make it possible, but to make it accurate you'd have to change the damage values for certain moves that would otherwise be useless as a finish.

So if you need that front grapple hurricanarana to be just as a powerful as a stunner, you'd have to use a gonzo mod with an irn mod.

Two lines of code that anyone could learn to do in less than 20 minutes, AND it wouldn't even glitch! There's even a tool for it already so you don't have to write the code for it.

waylonmercyshands has made a fantastic code generator that can already create huge codes and anyone that can read english can have it down within an hour....

.... I mean.... with all that awesomeness at your fingertips... why stop with just improved textures?

But... to put my own project as an example, I don't think it needs any of that.

Maybe for a project like showdown or something bigger.

But a humble project like mine, doesn't need all those things you named there, that's where I'm going.

Sure, you can use them, but they are NOT essential for a save, at all.

 

[Deleted User]

Your save, in my opinion, is missing accurate movesets due to lack of movehacks.

Keep in mind your save is one of my personal favorites in No Mercy history.

That isn't a rib, just my opinion. When someone plays one of our saves, they expect to be able to choose the wrestler and be able to use all their cool moves.

True, they are NOT essential. But neither is making decent textures, as youtube comps have shown us.

My point is this: Even if you are only using arena hacks and such for your project, you are still relying on hacks to finish your save, and that's a fact. People who are going to do this on ANY level should learn the basics.

So why stop at the bare minimum just because of a learning curve?

It feels incomplete.

 

[The NekoMancer]

Your save, in my opinion, is missing accurate movesets due to lack of movehacks.

Keep in mind your save is one of my personal favorites in No Mercy history.

That isn't a rib, just my opinion. When someone plays one of our saves, they expect to be able to choose the wrestler and be able to use all their cool moves.

True, they are NOT essential. But neither is making decent textures, as youtube comps have shown us.

My point is this: Even if you are only using arena hacks and such for your project, you are still relying on hacks to finish your save, and that's a fact. People who are going to do this on ANY level should learn the basics.

So why stop at the bare minimum just because of a learning curve?

It feels incomplete.

I only avoid Move Hacks because they never work on my end. No matter how well done they are so if I can't get them to work, I won't bother making others try to. Even barskio's and wwefan4life2's move hacks look messy and glitchy when I try to use them. I don't know what's wrong haha.
I know this sounds more like an excuse, but If I didn't have this problem which nobody else seems to have, I would totally add move hacks to my projects without hesitation.

Then again, I never said move hacks were not necessary. I just choose not to use them because for the reason I just mentioned.

 

[S.K. Stylez]

Rom hacking and ASM makes everything better. Period.

 

[Deleted User]

So.

Do we need to make some hacking tutorials?

I made an animation splicing tutorial "for dummies", once, Do we need a "hacking for dummies" series?

Cause I'd totally be down to collaborate on that with some peeps.

@victor: I think it can be fixed.

 

[The NekoMancer]

So.

Do we need to make some hacking tutorials?

I made an animation splicing tutorial "for dummies", once, Do we need a "hacking for dummies" series?

Cause I'd totally be down to collaborate on that with some peeps.

@victor: I think it can be fixed.

yas pls

Even though I couldn't make the move hacks for dummies thing work to save my life

 

[jordyad]

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>S.K. Stylez</dt><dd>Aug 14 2017, 11:27:57 AM</dd></dl><div>Rom hacking and ASM makes everything better. Period.[/quote]The Super Saiyan God say it all...

Even though jordyad still has troubles understanding ASM language...

 

[cmX]

New people don't like learning how to hack because it's boring.

Attention spans are different these days. 2x people use Instagram over twitter because it's more fun for visual stimulation (example, making a wrestler mod) than textual (example, hacking gameshark codes). ANother example, lots of people like making/sharing appearance edits on Fire Pro than take time to do logic/moves.

 

[jordyad]

New people don't like learning how to hack because it's boring.

Agree, that's long and boring...

But once you've learn how to hack, you just can't stop hack the game (maybe I'm the only one ehhh)

 

[The NekoMancer]

I wouldn't say it's boring because I bet it's fun to see the results. But you can't expect people to understand it just as you do because not everyone has the same capabilities, even if some say otherwise. I am more of an "artistic" visual guy. I am NOT bad at math at all, at least wherever I've been studying I'm one of the highest rated at math, but I do get quite confused looking at the hacking tutorials and trying to understand them. I and others don't have the ability to remember and make those things work that some others do have, And I think that's fine.

Some other people CAN make mods but don't focus on trying to maje them look as good as they possibly can make them because it's just not their thing, and that's fine, too! Some people don't have the same sense of aesthetic that I or others have or aren't good at spotting minor details that would make a mod look visually accurate like I and others are, or just don't have the drawing skills that are needed to recreate some stuff that I and others have. And that's totally fine.


We all have different capabilities, and that's FINE.

We have different ways of thinking, different ways of viewing things, and different abilities and interests. The good thing is, that we all at some point can find a partner in this community or a group that can complement our weaknesses and make our projects reach better potentials.

Phil has developed his hacking skills overtime, and while his mods don't look bad, they are no Icco or WMI good looking. But he managed to build a group of people who share his interest in changing the way the game feels and plays, and that's freaking awesome.

the VPW team are all rounders. Their mods look great and they are geniuses at hacking stuff, and that's awesome.

lastly, I absolutely suck at hacking, I've tried to understand it and have only come up with basic shit like modifying already existing hacks to my convenience, modifying some values until I come up with something (like when I posted the big weapon addys, it was just me increasing and decreasing values and noticing different shapes as i went on) BUT recently allied with KWG who is trying his hand and learning hacking, and he certainly is more qualified to do that than I am, and I am more prone to detailing in graphics than he is, so we are coming up with stuff for WM 2000 and eventually will add new hacks to Project Joshi. And I think that's awesome, too, haha.

---

Movesets count as hacks and they are completely necessary.

This I totally agree with.

You definitely can't make a save without making movesets, that's ridiculous, haha.

 

[jordyad]

Trust me Vec, when I started hacking like in 2014 I was such a n00b at it, so hardwork is the key to succed.

But then with times and SK Stylez I became good at it.

Oh and you'd be surprise but I REALLY, I mean <big>REALLY</big> suck at maths and I'm often the lowest rated at it. I can only do simple calculations, that's it, no equations or weird stuff like this.