Did Savage and Hogan reconcile?

[Deleted User]

Yeah, he was stealing shows and being a nice transitional champion from time to time. I'm not saying he wasn't destined for greatness, but in kayfabe, Kurt Angle never turned the juice up and became a legitimate contender who would go on to be the only real challenge for Brock Lesnar, until he beat Hulk. Fucking. Hogan. VIA TAP OUT. HE MADE THE FUCKER TAP.

My reason isn't rubbish, your hate for Hulk Hogan is. Kayfabe > Your boring story.

Angle stole Hulkamania dovahkiin style and then passed it on to AJ. Thus why, AJ started injuring people with his finisher after leaving TNA and smiting Hogan. It's known as Hulkamaniareflux disease. You still have the power, but it comes at a higher price to your work mates.

 

[Maximo]

AJ was big on the indy scene even before WcW, so no, just no.

Can we do a round up quick?

Hogan helped Ultimate Warrior.
Hogan helped Chuck.
Hogan helped Edge.

Everyone else was huge without Hogan.

Hogan was great in AJPW and NJPW, he suited their style.
I won't deny that.

But without the name and without the films, without the adverts.
Without André.
Take out any of them and you lose millions of his fans.

But all those things were there, he did make money, and that's all that ended up mattering.

Has he given back to anyone? no.
Edge was someone for him to tag with.
Chuck was at the right place and the right time.
Ultimate Warrior he treated like shit.

 

[Tired]

Angle never turned the juice up because he didn't need the steroids. Simple as that.

 

[Deleted User]

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>

Roddy Piper - We need examples where Hogan did not get a massive payday specifically for taking the loss, or was not promised a bigger win later down the line .Hogan did get a pay bonus for this.
[/quote]

Um... every time? Seriously. The War to Settle the Score? Wrestlemania I? Starrcade 96? What does the payday matter? Both men get bigger paydays on PPVs. You're just angry for it because it's Hogan. Also, it was Roddy's refusal to job that kept him from the top, even Vince and Hogan and Roddy himself verified this. Blame Roddy. Seriously.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Flair (In their first encounter at MSG) - Can't give you that one because Hogan was promised a return win.
[/quote]

Uh, yes you can. Because he was never promised a return win, that was the series of matches they tested of waters and decided it wasn't happening. And even if he was promised a returned win, so what? That's how you book a heel/face feud. Again, this is Vince's booking.
<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Mr. Perfect - When?
[/quote]

January 15th, 1990 at MSG. It's on the Mr. Perfect DVD set and is awesome as hell!

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Ultimate Warrior - I'll give you this one.
[/quote]

No you won't. Hogan already did.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Macho man Randy Savage (He made Savage look like he could believable beat Hogan, this was pre-WM V, and YES, making someone look strong and still beating them was putting someone over in those days. Which was Flair's job, as well.) - I can't let you have this. Hogan was originally supposed to face Ted DiBiase for the title at WM V, but then Hogan insisted on facing Savage because Savage was starting to become as popular as him.
[/quote]

Read the quote I quoted where you quoted my quote: This was PRE-Wrestlemani V, again, on the unreleased collector's set of Hulk Hogan you will find such old gems as their original feud, where Macho was made to look like he could go toe to toe with Hulkster, and he did very well.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
The Undertaker - Can't give you this one as he got the promised bigger win less than a month later.
[/quote]

That's like telling Iron Sheik he wasn't champion. This was a legitimate big deal, Undertaker says so, Vince says so, every damn Undertaker DVD I have says it is and Hulk Hogan even says it is. To beat Hulk Hogan, no matter the circumstances, in his prime, for that belt, in those years was HUGE. Huge.
[/quote]

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Paul Wight - Again, the plan was for Hogan to get a bigger win later on.
[/quote]

I can disprove this easily: I was twelve when he became champ and he was this unknown big deal over night. You are dead wrong. Doesn't matter if Hogan was going to win later, do you even remember HOW he won? He had to cheat and use two other guys to do it!

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Sting - Major pay bonus for threatening not to put him over.
[/quote]

Complete hearsay, and he's put Sting over multiple times. Even before he was The Crow persona, they had a match on Nitro. Again, my stupidly large DVD collection.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
The Rock - For the second encounter, I'll allow this. I would be petty of me to suggest that Mr. McMahon was the promise of a bigger win as it was supposed to be Piper at one point. He received a major bonus for the first loss.
[/quote]

Stop citing paydays. We don't know what these guys are getting paid, we know what disgruntled people are saying they were getting paid. Hearsay is garbage.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Kurt Angle - Okay.
[/quote]

It's DAMN TRUE!

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Goldberg - Major bonus.
[/quote]

I don't believe you and it still cemented Goldberg as a top tier guy.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
The Great Muta (Once again, made him look legitimate strong) - Promise of a return win.
[/quote]

No he actually won that match, but you should watch it. I posted it. Muta kicks out of the big boot and legdrop, for pete's sake.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Billy and Chuck - When?
[/quote]

When they got their titles back.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Brock Lesnar - Okay, even though I pointed this one out.
[/quote]

Damn strait.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Triple H - When? Triple H put over Hogan.
[/quote]

Only because there was interference, and again, when Hogan wanted his rematch against Undertaker, he had to wrestle Triple H for a shot at the title, Triple H beat him clean. Does this not count since Triple H was promised a win down the line when he lost to Hogan? Did Hogan never beat Triple H? See how silly that logic is?

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
The Undertaker (Again, because biker Taker is different) - Okay, fair enough.[/quote]

Dead man walkin'.

 

[Maximo]

Are you kidding me?
Sting was the epitome of WcW long before Hogan came in 94.

I'm not going to add anything else, we've already repeated almost everything now.

I just was to say "Keson's Hulkamania is at 9000!" take of that what you will.

Edit:
The Giant his first match against Hogan, and he was stripped of the title a week later, then he lost 2 more matches against Hogan.

He made him and broke him...half a point for the kinda putting over the Giant then?

 

[Deleted User]

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>The Olympics with a broken fricking neck made Angle.[/quote]

Doesn't count, he won it on a dusty finish.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Taker helped make Angle.[/quote]

Post Hogan. If your counting Undertaker beating the tar out him for messing up his bike, Angle isn't this legitimate tough wrestler who isn't scared of anyone because he knows he can beat everyone.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Jericho helped make Angle.
Benoit helped made Angle.
[/quote]

They helped make him seem a viable mid-card. All three of those guys were on the same level at that point, and none of them were considered world title contenders, though their matches were still good, they were midcarders still.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Austin helped make Angle.
[/quote]

Post Hogan. Angle couldn't even be seen as a threat to him during Invasion, he had to use trickery! In kayfabe, at this point, Kurt Angle is a very strong wrestler, but he's no where near Rock, Austin, or Undertaker. He's not believable. He beat up Shane Mcmahon, sure, but he's still not a believable top guy who can beat ANYONE. He's not considered one of the best in the world.

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>
Eddie helped complete Angle.
[/quote]
Agreed. Angle lost a hair a vs hair match after a three month feud with Edge, and proceeded to wear a wig everywhere he went.

Until Hulk Hogan tore it form his head one month later, and let the spirit of Hulkmania help Angle embrace the power of baldness. Angle went crazy as soon as he lost that wig, he became this furious animal, and proceeded to do what no one had done before, make Hulk Hogan tap out.

The next month at Vengeance he would have one of the greatest triple threat matches against both Rock and Undertaker.

He would main event the next Wrestlemania against Brock Lesnar.


<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Hogan helped Edge though. BUT ONLY if Hogan won the match.[/quote] Ask Adam Copeland thinks if he should have won instead of Hogan. Pfft. That was a give in.

---

@ Maximo: I never said he made Sting, I said he put him over and made him look strong. Sheesh.

---

I've been re-watching Angle's match at KOTR 2002, and yes, it's THE transitional match in his career.

 

[Tired]

A wrestler works a match, they get paid. That is the process. Hogan got paid a lot of money for the vast majority of his matches. But too often, he would only allow himself to lose if he was promised a bonus on top of his original fee. So this does not count as actually putting anyone over.

And the return win is a huge deal. That means that the initial loss was not designed to put over a talent, but to put over Hogan. The first loss is supposed to set up a bigger win for Hogan down the line. This is not putting someone over.

One retweet, and he becomes a bigger Hogan mark than Hogan himself.

---

Also, Billy & Chuck got their titles back from Rikishi & Rico. It was Christian & Lance Storm that got the titles from Hogan & Edge.

 

[Deleted User]

Ive been a bigger Hogan mark than most for awhile, looove the Hulkster.

I hope you guys aren't getting actually mad, I just find it funny. Hogan put people over, more than a lot of world champions before him.

edit: You are right! It was the Unamericans! Even BETTER!

 

[Tired]

Nobody's mad. But if you had been making these arguments about Cena... let's just not go there.

 

[Deleted User]

Okay, just making sure, because these kind of convos are usually the funnest. It's wrestling, no one is right. Everyone is passionate, and of course, HULK HOGAN RULES!

Cena rules, too. I just don't prefer him as a wrestler.

 

[Maximo]

Why would we be mad? it's fun looking through history, whether our memory of it is right or wrong.

"But if you had been making these arguments about Cena... let's just not go there."

*cough cough cough*

John Cena deserved his first 3 titles.

 

[Tired]

If you are talking about the United States title, then you are roughly 66% right.

---

*Cena. just don't refer him as a wrestler.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Deleted User]

Glad we could all agree on Angle and Paul Wight.

 

[Maximo]

I DIDN'T AGREE ON ANGLE! *gets out war chariot*

No I'm done now. Like I said in the second post
"I vote Jay Lethal for Macho Man Induction."

 

[Tired]

Up yours on both counts, Keson. He became a laughing stock for the rest of his WCW career. Hogan only had him pushed to re-create his Andre the Giant moment. Once the green rookie took his loss to Hogan, the Giant became a joke and was pretty much relegated the the lower tag team division. It wasn't until he went to OVW that Wight became something.

And Angle made Angle by becoming Kurt freakin' Angle. Hogan didn't pave the way for him. Hogan wasn't even a crushed coffee cup that someone lobbed out the driver's window on Angle's path.

 

[Deleted User]

Pfft, The Gian was always an awesome force in WCW, WWF made him look weak until after OVW. It's True! It's Damn true!

I guess we got waaaaaay off topic.

No, Hogan shouldn't induct Macho, Leapin' Lenny should.

 

[Maximo]

I thought we were done?

Fine...

*Locks pizza in the oven so all the heathens in OSR don't have their pieces until he gets a slice.*

*Puts on boxing gloves, then realises he didn't turn down the oven, so he fumbles around with temperature gauge until it will no longer burn*

Alright...where were we?

 

[Deleted User]

Hogan doesn't deserve to induct Macho.

We were there, but YOU GUYS wanted to talk about Hulk Hogan so much we got carried away.

 

[Maximo]

You started it, Rev disagreed, I threw my chips in because I have time to kill, and we got to 3 pages, fun fun fun.

 

[Deleted User]

So we all agree I had nothing to do with it.

Leapin' Lenny, then? Leaping Lenny.