Advice for new members attempting a save.

[Deleted User]

I'm just going to make a big list of things I wish I knew before i got into hacking/Modding No mercy. if any other veterans wanna jump in with their own advice, do so and I'll add it to the first post.

This is being done because there are mistakes and behaviors that I see over and over that are sometimes cringe worthy. People think it is easier than it is, or they think it's some kind of black magic that only the elite can perform. It's neither.

So here we go.

<big><big>1: Do NOT announce a save until you KNOW for a fact you will be able to handle every part of it. It's a LOT more than just wrestler texture mods. In fact, many times, the wrestler textures are the EASIEST part.

Don't believe me? Go ahead and take a good look at all the "elite" texture modders that don't know squat about hacking. I can't tell you how many interesting save ideas and good work I've seen come to a crashing halt because the skills needed to complete the save were not assigned for and covered.

The biggest point with #1 is this: COVER YOUR BASES. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A FOUNDATION THAT WILL BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT.

2: Do NOT get yourself buried in wrestler mods. This is one of the biggest mistakes people make. They make all their textures first, and then when it comes time to make codes for the movesets and movehacks, they are overwhelmed by the sheer amount of tedious work it takes to program all those movesets.

When I made Showdown, I had a VERY simple rule: As soon as I finish a wrestler texture mod, I would halt all texture work until their moveset was written and completed.

This may not seem like that big of a deal, but you have to trust me, this is easily the BIGGEST mistake I see many people make. I can't count how many good looking projects are dead in their tracks because the wrestlers are not playable, and they have a mountain of code that will never be written.

ONE AT A TIME. ONE DAMN WRESTLER AT A TIME WILL SAVE YOU THE HEADACHE OF BORING BACKTRACKING LATER.

3o NOT assume the community will spoon feed you tech support or will finish the parts you don't know how to.

Sure, often times you will see a lot of us help each other out with their projects, but usually that's because we've know each other for a long time, and mutually help each other with our stuff.

There's a difference between helping EACH OTHER and assuming others will help YOU. It's a two-way street.

4: LEARN THE BASICS OF HACKING.

If you can rock photoshop, then you have no excuse for not being able to figure out hacking. Sure, there is a period in the beginning where it seems daunting, but hacking is extremely simple once you put forth a REAL effort to experiment and learn.

There is nothing more maddening than seeing someone who is capable of learning the basics of hacking who refuses to because they don't understand it completely as soon as they start. And then they ask others for help simply because they don't want to be bothered with learning a new skill.

Were you a master of photoshop when you started? Of course not. Same with hacking. It isn't magic, it's simply editing numbers. Numbers which have ALREADY BEEN TRANSLATED FOR YOU.

This is easily my biggest pet peeve, we have an online encyclopedia of hacking tutorials and advise but because people get scared of some numbers they refuse to even TRY hacking.

Guess what? HACKING IS EASIER THAN TEXTURE MODDING. THE REASON HACKERS GET A PISSY ATTITUDE WITH REQUESTS AND QUESTIONS IS BECAUSE WE KNOW FOR A FACT YOU HAVEN'T MADE A GENUINE EFFORT TO LEARN IT YOURSELF!

No, really, hacking is fucking EASY. It's swapping numbers. So many of you don't even TRY, even when asked to. There are members who have been in the No Mercy scene for YEARS who still are too lazy to try, and it seriously pisses me off when I see these long time members STILL making requests for basic shit.

GET OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE AND LEARN TO DO BASIC HACKING.

4: Do NOT set a release date.

Why?

Because it NEVER works out.

Kay? Kay. This is self explanatory.

5: Don't get frustrated if the community seems less than excited about your project.

The No Mercy scene is rotten with unfinished saves. We're used to seeing a project announced, have good steam for a couple months, and then end up dead in the water.

We won't get excited until it looks like there's a genuine chance it will be released.

6: Understand, this will take a LONG time.

Even if using templates and other people's codes, you have a LOT of work ahead of you. Sometimes even YEARS of work. If you are not willing to commit that much time and effort, then don't.

7: Compilation saves are cool, but they will never be held in the same regard as a genuine save.

Why? Because the quality is hardly ever consistent. Comp saves are neat, but in the end, are usually bug-riddled messes.

8: LEARN TO USE HACKING TOOLS.

This is kind of an extra point when it comes to learning the basics of hacking. If you can't figure out how to work WldFb's moveset tool.... then you have no place making a save. period.

9: STUDY THE TIME PERIOD OF THE SAVE YOU ARE MAKING.

Keep it as accurate as possible. An accurate moveset will always be noticed, but a quickly made "good enough" moveset will always suck.

Know what you have to make ahead of time.

10: Do NOT announce a save, have ZERO work to show for it, and then proceed to ask others to join your team! Get a portfolio of previews together to show others you will actually be putting in work.

11: DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP.

I only help Gen Hex, WWF Legends, and Wrestling Modders Inc, anymore. If you are a noob and want my help, don't flood my inbox with stupid questions, create a body of work that shows you are worth my, or ANY veteran's time.

</big>

If anyone else has tips, put em in this thread and I will add them to the first post.

 

[The NekoMancer]

NO I WON'T LEARN BASIC HACKING FUK U KESON.

nah, just kidding. I know a bit of how to make basic codes and stuff like that.

But I think the main advice is not to attempt doing a save if you're too new to modding and hacking.
Your mods will suck, your save will suck your codes and movesets will suck and you will have a mess instead of something playable and enjoyable.

I can put my own work in WarZone as an example. It sucks, and don't even try to tell me otherwise. It looks terrible, it's ugly, some movesets are shit, the arenas are crap, the menus are lazily done, everything is a mess in that save. And when I finally got some skills to do decent looking work it was too late to fix everything I had already done.

 

[Deleted User]

Yes, fantastic point.

HONE YOUR CRAFT.

 

[The NekoMancer]

Another thing to do when starting a save is not letting people pressure you or not feeling obligated to finish quickly. If you think you're being too slow to finish one mod because you're really trying for it to look great and and accurate, then you're in the right direction. A good mod doesn't take 5 minutes to make. It might take hours or DAYS to do.

When I was working in WarZone I was known to be a "Modding Machine" that could make 5 wrestlers with 4 attires each in the span of a day, but they were all lacking in quality and consistency. With the passing of the years I've learned to take my time and make it really worth looking at and playing with. Now I'm dividing my time in three different projects but I'm working at a very slow pace. One mod at a time, accurate as possible and not rushing it.

Project Joshi was posted here TWO years ago as a Stardom minisave and since I've made it grow VERY slowly.

And you can look at Showdown itself, how many years has that been in the works. When I joined this forum, Triple Threat, its predecessor was already a thing.

Look at jcsix, jazz and Flashman's VPW save, it has been in the works for YEARS and they still improve each and every day at their own pace.

---

OH AND DON'T EVER TAKE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM PERSONALLY.

It's new modders' biggest sin. They get offended when they tell them their mods don't look as good as they think they do, and sometimes when they don't, they want to be spoonfed directions to make them look good.

Don't be lazy, don't be a dick. Constructive criticism isn't meant for you to feel bad, we don't want to bash you. We want you to IMPROVE and feel proud of your own work.

 

[Wolfpac_69]

my advice as creating a whole save on your own is nearly impossible, i would master one aspect of the game at a time. Everyone usually starts with wrestler mods if thats what you wanna do great but make that your thing until there perfect and your bored of making them, THEN start a new challenge i myself when from wrestlers to arenas now im on interfaces it's taken me literally years to get to where i am and I'm still learning

 

[bluntfello]

This is all great info. I myself have gotten to a point where I feel like my wrestler texture mods are top notch, but know very little about hacking. I know how to use the moveset editor but need to learn basic code making, particularly how to make my interfaces and menus unique and not just a copy and paste job with a brand new coat of paint of someone else's work. That is why I haven't posted any work in a while, I need to expand on what I know so I can make a complete save. I do like to experiment and try weird new things creatively speaking so hopefully I can come up with something that no one has ever seen. I have plenty of cool ideas, sadly the time and the will needed is not always on my side.

 

[S.K. Stylez]

Hacking is the foundation of any save. As mentioned before, learn the basics of hacking. Work off existing codes. I was like a n00b at hacking in 2005. I worked off existing codes to start with, and bugged ImBored about poly hacking. Over the years, I've developed my knowledge and looked into new ways and things to hack.

If there's something you want to have in your save, hack it first before any texture work.

I considered doing a WWF Vs WCW save for VPW2 in early 2014, but then I was like I want the game to be in English, I want to have moveset hacks, I need additional polys, I want women in the game, I want coloured ropes etc.
So first off, I looked at ways of translating the game. Texturing the translation had been attempted, but snesmaster40 faced problems with buffer textures, so it'd keep changing and it dampened chances of translating the game. Then I stumbled across AJ's site and he mentioned rom hacking a translation. I looked into it, and found the tools I needed and made a translation. One thing off the list ticked off.

One by one, once all your hacks are in place, then when you feel you have everything you want, start texturing away.

Still now, there's things I want in a game that I'm hacking away at.

 

[RagDas]

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the guys who set up the scene and have blazed the trail for others. I myself have never been a modder, and I don't want to be. I enjoy providing resources to those who want to try, but in my own private attempts at hacking, I'm just not very good.

Of course, S.K. Stylez knows that, haha. As many times as I wanted to help him with stuff (e.g. the 100+ wrestlers in VPW2), I've never been able to assist because I'm still trying to work out how he does things. Even as simple as he makes it, I guess I'm slow in this area. However, I'm still thankful for him providing the resources for others to learn and use what he's found.

Furthermore, people tend to underestimate the time it takes to build basic competencies. A lot of the stuff on Keson's list speaks to me, because when I even look at Step 1, I realize that I don't think I'm cut out for it, and I could probably be much more useful in other capacities.

 

[Deleted User]

@RagDas: A good place to begin hacking are attire hacks and master move mods, believe it or not. It's simple, gets you familiar with the structure of addys and values, and eventually can lead to bigger things.

Not expecting you to drop everything and try it, but the next time you feel like giving it a shot, start there.

 

[Chuckiepk]

<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>RagDas</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>As many times as I wanted to help him with stuff (e.g. the 100+ wrestlers in VPW2), I've never been able to assist because I'm still trying to work out how he does things. Even as simple as he makes it, I guess I'm slow in this area. However, I'm still thankful for him providing the resources for others to learn and use what he's found.

Furthermore, people tend to underestimate the time it takes to build basic competencies. A lot of the stuff on Keson's list speaks to me, because when I even look at Step 1, I realize that I don't think I'm cut out for it, and I could probably be much more useful in other capacities.[/quote]
<blockquote class='quote\\_blockquote'><dl><dt>Keson</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>@RagDas: A good place to begin hacking are attire hacks and master move mods, believe it or not. It's simple, gets you familiar with the structure of addys and values, and eventually can lead to bigger things.

Not expecting you to drop everything and try it, but the next time you feel like giving it a shot, start there.
[/quote]

Because I have only been hacking for about 2 years, I don't consider myself a veteran like everyone else in this topic so everyone else may have better advice than what I have to give. However, the advice that I have is don't be afraid to try new things. I originally came to this forum because of the texture modding but I stayed because of the hacking. Even though I was interested in adding new or updated wrestlers into the game, I quickly realized that I could use hacking to change the gameplay entirely. I started out 2 years ago knowing absolutely nothing about hacking though. So, I decided to look through this forum to try to learn as much as I could about the basics. In addition, I looked on other sites too like The Wrestling Legends Forum, WldFb's Archive Forum, VPW2 Dojo, CRW Forum, Hacker's Club, No Mercy Library, WaylonMercysHands's Gameshark Code Generator, Pest Gaming, The Impact Zone, Wrestling CAW Exhibit, Anti-GSCentral, DegenerationX69's WWF NO Mercy DataBase, Pelican's No Mercy Archive, and CWC - Custom Wrestler Creations to get an idea of the amount of variety in what is possible through hacking.

I started with very basic codes involving Broad Action Mods in order to get a feel for how gameshark codes worked. It took just a few weeks for me to feel like I had a firm grasp on the basics and then I decided to try getting into more advanced things like menu hacking, move hacking, palette changes, weapon mods, and match making. I know I will most likely never reach the texture modding or hacking skill level of guys like S.K. Stylez, Flashman, Keson, WldFb, NekoMancer, and Wolfpac_69 but I don't let that get in the way of me testing out new ideas for the game. Just keep trying things out and see what works.

P.S. - Also, don't forget to back up all of your work files. Many people here (including me a few months ago) have lost a large portion of their work because of a computer malfunction.

 

[cmX]

Cool advice.

I always quit saves because I get lost in hacking new features. Easy to make wrestler mods, but even easier get lost in the memory editor for hours when looking for one specific address/code.

Another reason. I hate black people and women.

And don't make a similar save to someone else. They get sad and call you unoriginal.

 

[S.K. Stylez]

Cool advice.

I always quit saves because I get lost in hacking new features. Easy to make wrestler mods, but even easier get lost in the memory editor for hours when looking for one specific address/code.

Another reason. I hate black people and women.

And don't make a similar save to someone else. They get sad and call you unoriginal.

Agree on getting lost in the memory editor.

The second reason....what??

Yep, it needs to be unique.

 

[cmX]

I've always hated modding Black People because I can get by on Skin Color 4 for white wrestlers. Sure, Ambrose and Rollins aren't the SAME tone, but it's good enough for me. But when getting into Faarooq, D'Lo, Mark Henry, Godfather, Rocky, I felt it was a disservice if their skintone wasn't perfect, and would just say screw it if I couldn't get it right.


I've always hated modding women because the women's in-game model is shit. Both the bodies and the face shapes give subtle inaccuracies that I couldn't ignore, and then scrap the entire woman.

 

[The NekoMancer]

I've always hated modding women because the women's in-game model is shit. Both the bodies and the face shapes give subtle inaccuracies that I couldn't ignore, and then scrap the entire woman.

True, My current personal project struggles with that. The models are so badly done and there's so little options of body shapes it's a pain at times.

 

[CalvTheHedgehog]

1: Do NOT announce a save until you KNOW for a fact you will be able to handle every part of it. It's a LOT more than just wrestler texture mods. In fact, many times, the wrestler textures are the EASIEST part.

fuck. I'll take this L, as should everyone. Saves seem like you'll eventually complete them, but you have to remember that just cuz you scrolled OSR for an hour one night, real life isn't gonna be that nice to you always. Same goes for the release date rule.

I like this post.

 

[PinkFloyd]

1: Do NOT announce a save until you KNOW for a fact you will be able to handle every part of it. It's a LOT more than just wrestler texture mods. In fact, many times, the wrestler textures are the EASIEST part.

One of my biggest pet peeves is regretting how I should've done something better. This is why I take almost forever in releasing new content. I can tell you how I made a wrestler in one day, realized how terrible he was to play, watch plentiful of that wrestler, go back and clean his move-set, and give that wrestler better attires. Also what Calavantar said, I'm hitting College 0_0 and now I'm spending time learning Unity. Sometimes it's a good thing to just take a seat back and wait until the moment where I really want to get back on my project. Hacking wise, I wouldn't mind if someone would want to take the wheel for my mod. I at least have the basics of hacking and the "elite" of modding.

This is gonna sound cheesy but it's very true. Practice your basics! If you have a solid foundation of how to mod and hack. You can pretty much make a mod. That's my advice.

 

[The NekoMancer]

Oh, yeah, I remembered. Spmetimes it happens to me that I stop being happy with my own work. So that's when I think it's time for me to stop modding for a while, take a break and resume some other time. (I mean for days, weeks or even months). Then I return to work and find that I'm doing better than before, lol.

 

[SLX]

I've been held back from greatness in the minds of many of the long-timers because I never took to hacking and my texture mods took several years to get reasonably good. Add to that my immaturity and overt hypersocial behavior (i mean i was annoying as fuck), I never really got in good with most of the guys who I could have learned from. Truth be told i've always struggled with hacking because I have a legit case of Dyscalculia so the numbers always had trouble staying straight in my head. I made a lot of mistakes and couldn't keep my work organized. I think i made a few useful contributions due to my hard effort but they've been lost to time and forum servers going away.

Back when I was running No Mercy Modstation in 2008, I had spent some time going over known values in WCW/nWo Revenge and managed to hack into the game ALL of the known male AND female managers, including Wrath, to be playable with their own character slots and movesets. It was not that hard and only took me about half a day. I never understood why this had not been written up and released to the community sooner. It made the game more like WM2000. But because I was banned from NMZ and had very few contacts on the board, my primary ally who still had an account there, Self_destruction, recommended keeping the code there exclusively on NMM in order to boost traffic (exclusive content, yada yada). About 6 months later our board was hacked into and deleted, and we couldn't get it back 100% intact, so the codes got lost.

Just thought i'd share a story about the few times hacking was really fruitful for me. I really think my brain is more wired toward replication and mimicry than original creative thinking, which explains a lot of my work, but this was one of the few times I did something that should have been groundbreaking and barely got any notice lol.

 

[cmX]

:withflair:

 

[bluntfello]

My question is, does a mod save require a lot of hacking to be enjoyable? I for one enjoy the game as it is; the gameplay engine is probably the best there has ever been, it is fun and most of the moves being used today are in it, not to mention plenty of taunts and character slots and arenas. I don't necessarily need 500 cheats added to a save to enjoy it, just as long as my favorites like Bret Hart or Stone Cold are in with all their moves I will have fun with it. Of course, all these hacks are just a bonus to an already great game and highly welcomed.